Ask the Expert: Raye Lochert

In the vast sea of horsemanship clinicians today, Raye is considered one of the most accessible teachers you will find. His approachable demeanor allows for a much higher level of learning with his clients. For years Raye has been learning better and more efficient ways to work with horses by watching everyday horse people and horses and working with world renowned horsemen and women including John and Josh Lyons. He has taken this knowledge and developed his own style of teaching that truly sets him apart."No problem is too small and no question is too silly," says Raye. A natural teacher, he is always willing to help people who want to achieve clear and consistent communication with their horses.

For more information on Raye Lochert and his schedule, visit http://www.rlhorsemanship.com/.

Ask Raye a question now!

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Question:
So I got this new horse, and he is half Morgan and half Appaloosa and stands about 18 hands high. He is big and bulky enough to pull a wagon, however, 'Spyder Man' hasn't ever even seen a wagon or carriage before in his life and he is 16 years old now. Is there any possible way to train him to pull one without him reacting hysterically? Because he is a very claustrophobic horse and I feel that he may feel confined pulling something, and I am worried I haven't got the training ability yet to teach him how to pull one. Is there anything you can recommend for me and my horse 'Spyder Man'?

--Cassie

Answer:
Can ‘Spyder Man’ be trained to pull a wagon at 16 years old? Sure. Can you do it? That’s up to you.

Teaching a horse to pull wagons is usually best left to a professional. So many things could go wrong that having a pro do it is a good idea. What you can do is all the prep work prior to sending him to a driving trainer.

The prep work is primarily sacking out and getting him used to pulling or dragging objects. When I say objects, I mean tires, tarps, boat bumpers and even little red wagons. Teaching a horse to drag objects not only increases the fun you can have with your horse but it makes him more stable, finished and useful. A horse that has been taught to drag things won’t flip out when an object gets hung up in his tail or when something is sliding along the ground towards it. You will also be able to drag objects such as branches off the trail or wood to the fire campsite. The possibilities are endless.

[Editor's note: Raye's December 2008 column will detail how to safely train your horse to drag objects such as those mentioned above, but the process is complex and cannot be detailed in the space allotted here. Please always keep safety first with your horse, and when in doubt, work with a professional.]

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Question:
Hi Raye,

During your clinic at Cowboy Campsite in Sedro Woolley, WA you worked with me on keeping my horse in the bridle. We did this by working on the transitions. This is a great exercise but I'm still not positioning my hands properly. One of my challenges is not feeling the motion of the horse with my hands and setting a rigid boundary so my horse constantly bumps into the bit. This causes her to throw her head to avoid getting jabbed.

This problem occurs at the mostly at the lope. I can't seem to find the correct rhythm or cadence with my hands. Do you have any suggestions?

Answer:
Hi K.,

Thanks for your question.

Getting your horse "in the bridle" or soft is an exercise in patience, timing, and feel. Lucky for you, you have two out of three at least. The one that will come is timing.

While riding your horse at the walk ask for your horse to collect up through his neck. What he should do is lower his head and arch his neck as if to bring his mouth closer to his chest. You do this by picking up the reins with just enough pressure to make him change what he is doing. Then release when his head is where you want it. Remember to release with your elbows and not with your hands. Having your elbows come forward releases the pressure on the reins.

Problems that may occur are that he may raise his head or lower his head too much. This is easy to fix by either lifting up on the reins if his head is too low or holding steady pressure if his head is too high.

Another problem is that he may drop his head to where you want it but then throw it right back up when you release. Kind of like a yo-yo. Here is where you need your timing. With practice you will find your timing comes quickly. When your horse raises his head you will pick up the reins. When he lowers it you will release it. Pretty soon it will be like you barely have to pick it up before he lowers his head.

When he is consistent with his head at the walk you will then move to the trot. Don't rush it. Make sure everything is solid at the lower gait before moving to the next.

When you have your horse "in the bridle" at the walk ask him to speed up to the jog or trot. As he speeds up he will fall apart and lift his head up and get heavy on the bit. This is because of two reasons. He has not learned to balance himself during the transition and he will get nervous. In the beginning all horses get nervous when you increase the speed. This is natural. As soon as you feel him fall apart then you bring him back down to the walk and start over. With repetition he will learn that raising his speed is not a reason to get nervous and he will learn to balance himself. It will take some time. Remember, horses live to be about 30. How many years do you have left to teach this skill? Don't rush it. Enjoy it.

Once your horse is transitioning from the walk to the trot nicely then you are ready to work on the trot to lope or canter transition. Here things change a little. As before get your horse "set up" for the transisiton. Soften his face, have him hold it there and then add your outside leg about four inches back from where it would be if you where just riding. Don't kick, but rather squeeze. While doing this loosen the reins up so the horse can stride out and not run into the bit. His head will be stuck out but that's okay for now. Just let him lope for about 5 strides and then bring him back to the trot. Repeat this many times. What you are trying to do is get him comfortable with the acceleration. When horses accelerate their emotions go up. In other words they get excited. When this happens they tend to fall apart. By speeding up and then slowing down you are getting them excited and then calming them down. The more you do this the more they realize they don't need to get excited. As this happens they become more balanced and fluid in their transition.

The key is to take all the time you need to set them up for a great transition. If you transition up when they are out of position then you set them up to fail. Once you accomplish the smooth transition up and downward then you are ready to let the horse lope longer. Remember you were only letting them go for about five strides. When you let them go longer you let them go 10 strides. At this point what you want to do is transition back to the trot before your horse gets too excited. Don't worry if you let the horse go too long, just try not to. What you are doing at this point is bumping up the panic threshold. Keep working on it until the horse lopes smoothly for a couple of laps. Once you have accomplished this then you are ready to move on to the next step.

The next step is to get the collected lope. While loping you will use the inside rein to bump the horse's head down and to the inside. Now when I say to the inside I mean his poll should be two to four inches off center to the inside. As soon as his head drops then stop bumping. Notice this time instead of holding steady even pressure you are bumping. This is because if you hold steady even pressure you will be banging on the horse's mouth. As a horse lopes they have to stride out. That stride includes extending the neck. If you are leaning on the reins when the horse extends that neck you will be banging on his mouth with every stride. To protect himself he will raise his head and shorten his stride. When this happens he becomes very choppy and there is no pleasure in riding a choppy horse. Not for you and not for the horse. With time and patience you will have a horse that will transition smoothly without tossing his head and one that is soft on the bit.

Good luck and have fun.
Raye

Question:

My husband and I have just purchased a 5 year old quarter horse mare that we had test ridden several times before purchasing in an enclosed arena. Now that we have her at our place, riding in larger areas, she seems to travel slightly sideways while trotting and cantering. The bit seems to be resting evenly in her mouth... any suggestions? It is a slow "migration" sideways, not a fast pull, so it is hard to tell what is going on.
~Teresa

Answer:

Hi Teresa-
Thanks for your question.
First, if you haven't already done so, have your vet take a look and eliminate any possible source of pain. Chiropractic is not out of the question. Also, check the teeth and saddle fit.

If the vet visit doesn't solve your horse’s problem, then you most likely have a directional control problem. Traveling in a straight line is a perfection of left and right turns. So to get a straight line or a consistent turn of direction you need to work on your turns. There are a few ways to do this.
The first way is to climb on your horse and go into a trot. While trotting, ask your horse to change directions every couple of seconds. Don't ride in a pattern, but rather just make a lazy scribble in the area you are riding. Your focus should be on making smooth turns at first. Look for softness in your horse's neck. Once your turns are going smoothly, start asking for your horse to break at the poll. In the beginning, work with just one rein at a time, switching back and forth. Then you can go to using two reins but always allowing some slack in the outside rein.

Once your horse is keeping her head down when changing directions, allow her to go straight. As long as she continues to go straight, let her. If she starts to drift in or out or speed up, go back to changing directions. After a couple changes let her go straight again. Keep working this until she moves at a consistent speed and direction. You can use this to perfect circles as well. The most common thing to be aware of is the horse anticipating the change of direction. If this happens, ask the horse to go back in the direction you were going to switch from. For example, if you are traveling to the right and you release the rein to go left and your horse immediately starts to head to the left, ask her to go back to the right. You want to make sure your horse turns only when you ask her - not because she thinks you are going to ask her. This exercise can take a few days to get consistent. Once it is, you can move on.

For this next exercise you will need 8 cones. Set the cones up in pairs about 3 to 4 feet apart. Two pairs will be in line with each other about 20 feet apart and the other two pairs will be set up the same way but perpendicular to the previous pairs. It kind of looks like the outline of a stop sign with the cones on the top, bottom, left and right points. The rule in using the cones is that you can only enter or exit through a pair of cones. Once you enter a set of cones you can go straight, right or left to exit through another set of cones. When entering or exiting a set of cones you must be straight. This is actually harder than it sounds. It will force you to work on controlling your horse's body through the hips or the shoulders. While riding, refrain from making the same turn over and over again. Change it up. Create a situation where the horse has to listen to you.


Both of these exercises will help in creating speed and directional control. Ride for 15 to 20 minutes at a time then give your horse a break and do something else. Turn on a stereo and listen to music but always focus on what you are doing. Have fun with it!
Thanks again for the question.
Raye

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Question:

Things have changed vastly since I was involved w/horses some 21 years ago. After a long absence due to family etc., I recently purchased a 4 1/2 yr. old gelding ex-race horse, 15.3, smart! His general Dressage training is coming well, starting everything from scratch assuming he knows nothing.


He has quirks...tried charging me on the lunge line (I did Join Up and reinforce that periodically, assuming he's a bit more alpha), I charged back with enforcement the final time and he's been quite lovely since. Yesterday, I saw this one coming over several days, he lifted his hind leg while in cross ties and pinned his ears (made the face) and threatened a kick while grooming.


My question is this...with all the changes/understanding of body language...what would/should be the "proper" reaction/discipline??


What I DID do was become large (only 5'2"), growled and flew at him with one whack, he pulled back, forward, large eyed but did not break the ties. Then stood like a rock thereafter. I've read where I should ask for submission by backing, head lowering...need a good routine to follow for any vice/smart alec behavior.


Thank you!
Beth


Right or wrong, is there an better way, more appropriate?


Answer:

Hi Beth-
Thanks for the e-mail. As far as I can see you did everything right and I’m really happy to hear it. Too often I hear of horror stories where this type of behavior has been "creeping up" but nothing has been done until it is too late. These days’ horse owners try to "understand" the horse. Therefore, they make excuses or take the blame themselves for something the horse did. The reality of it is the horse is an instinctual animal that lives in a herd. Now you can play any way you want to but if you’re not going to be a leader then the horse will assume the role.
I’m not saying that you need to show the horse who is boss by bullying them or abusing them but when a horse gets out of line and human safety is at risk then it is your job to correct the situation. In most cases reasoning doesn't work.


When it comes to disciplining horses I have a few rules.
1) I “discipline” a horse for only 3 types of behavior: Biting, rearing and kicking. As far as other unwanted behaviors, I prefer to make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard.


2) When implementing the discipline don’t use anything that you put on the horse (halter, headstall, etc.). If you do they soon won't let you put that item on them.


3) Don’t use anything that will physically damage the horse such as shovels, 2 x 4's, etc. I find a dressage whip works really well. When disciplining a horse my preference is to hit them where they are covered by sport boots, saddle, etc. But if you have to hit hide it may cause a pretty good sting but it won't cut or break bones.


4) No matter what you CANNOT go after the head. Anything from the shoulder to the back of the horse. I prefer the shoulders.


5) You have only three seconds from the instance of the bad behavior to the start of your discipline and ONLY three seconds of discipline. Anything after three seconds and the horse won't associate what they did with what you are doing. Doing it any longer than three seconds is abuse in my book. So for 3 seconds I pretty much make the horse think I’ve gone insane. The trick is to get the horse to associate the bad behavior with your response so that the next time your horse thinks about doing something like rearing they will think twice.


I work with a lot of new horse owners and a lot of people who have very little experience with horses. Invariably I will have someone who wants to "feel" for the horse. They want to treat it as if it were a kitten, puppy or even a child. They try to understand what the horse is thinking and try to reason with the horse. They make up excuses for the horse such as "he is playful" or "she just doesn't understand". They place human emotions on the horse. Usually they explain these things to me as they are getting walked on, pushed, or pulled. When I step in and take control of their horse they think I am being "too picky" by expecting the horse to hold still and stay out of my space. With the more assertive horses I have to resort to much firmer methods to keep the horse out of my space. What has to be remembered is that these animals are insecure by their very nature. They are built to run fast. They weigh about 1,000 pounds and they are a lot of muscle. A dog may jump on you but the most they may do is knock you over. When a horse jumps on you they are going to break bones. When you are out sized and out matched you have to depend on rules. Rules are enforced with firmness and fairness.


You can love your horse to death, but be sure they don't return the favor.
Raye



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Question
I have just gotten a 3-yr-old mare and started to break her. things were going great until I asked her to go. When I got her I thought that she would be the one I would fight with to SLOW DOWN... not to go. Its a fight to even get her to walk! I am trying to train for cutting and barrels...but do you have any advice?

Answer
Hi Marian,

To get your horse to move out you have to be consistent. This problem happens more often than you would think.

First, if your horse is just being ridden for the first few times, try disengaging the hip to help her get moving. To start, pick up your left rein and bring it up to your belly button. Use enough pressure to bring the nose around to the left, encouraging the hip to move to the right and vice versa on the other side. Once the hip is moving right and left, release sooner. Start rewarding the thought. In other words, as soon as you feel it about to move release the rein. Soon your horse will walk out forward after moving the hip. The reason your horse walks out forward is because you have created movement by moving the hip. Encourage this movement. You can use other pressure cues such as clucking or kissing to help get the movement. If your horse only moves its hip over, and then stops, gently use your legs to encourage movement (if your horse will tolerate this).

If your horse has been ridden several times and just does not want to move off, then there are several ways to approach this.

The way I like to work on it is by practicing my stops. Sounds backward, doesn’t it? Well, when you practice stops you have to practice starts as well. Start at one end of the arena and ask your horse to go forward. Walk three steps and stop. Relax. Repeat. When asking your horse to go, start with a kiss. Keep kissing until the horse walks out. If he doesn’t walk out off the kiss, keep kissing and squeeze with your leg. Still not moving out? Keep kissing and start bumping with your calves. Next level of pressure would be to keep kissing and bump with your heels. After that, you would increase the amount of force until the horse walks off. If need be, you can use a dressage whip as a last resort. It is important that you use this progression of force each time so the horse will learn to respond to the lesser pressure. If you go straight to the highest amount of pressure, then you have nothing to fall back to.

When applying the pressure, it has to be rhythmic and fairly steady. You don’t want to kick once and wait, but rather kick, kick, kick…until the horse starts to move off, and then stop the kicking immediately. The more consistent you are about getting what you’re asking, for the better your result will be. If you kick three times and give up, then you will have taught your horse that your kicking means nothing.

I like using the hip exercise for horses that are inexperienced and possibly just locked up emotionally. The stop/start exercise is great for horses that have learned to ignore their riders.

Hope this helps!



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Question:
I'm having a heck of a time saddling my mare --I'm half way through Level 2 Parelli, but nothing is working. I play lots of Friendly Game (sacking her out), put the saddle on, all is well -- but as soon as I reach under for the girth, she walks off or moves sideways. Sometimes I make her move forward more than she wants to, or sometimes I move her backwards or sideways instead. If she lets me bring the girth up, I don't immediately buckle it up but will drop it back down and rub her. I've done everything I can to be respectful and it's just like she shuts down, stops thinking, and starts reacting whenever I reach for the girth. ANY suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you so much.
~Valery

Answer:
Hi Valery-

What you are describing is a "cinchy" horse. She may be cinchy without a cinch being anywhere around. Before trying to pull the cinch under her belly, she should be able to be touched with your hand all over, including her belly, without moving or flinching. This is part of the sacking out process. If you feel she is too dangerous to touch under there with your hand, then use the tip of your Carrot Stick. If she moves off while you are touching her there, then try your best to keep touching her until she stops. When she stops, take your hand or stick away and praise her. Keep using this process until you can touch her without her moving away. Build up slowly. Don't start with your goal, but rather break it down by starting with what you already can do or what she will tolerate, and then build on that.

Once she is able to be touched with your hand, towels, plastic bags, brushes, etc., then you are ready for the next step. With her halter on, take a cotton lead rope and drape it over her withers. Reach underneath and bring it under her girth. Pull it from both ends, one down and one up, so it tightens around her. Remember, start out light and progress to heavier over the course of the lesson. Once she accepts that at a standstill, do it while she moves. Pull and release. Always give her a release so she doesn't feel trapped.

Now you can proceed to the saddle using the same technique. Place the pad on, then the saddle. Bring the cinch up and then let it down. Do this several times until she accepts it without moving. Now slip the latigo through the ring of the cinch. Pull the latigo up and then release. Do this several times until she accepts this as well. Now cinch her up tight and then immediately uncinch her. Do this several times. Once she accepts this, move on.

When you are ready to ride her, start from the beginning. Saddle her and lightly cinch her up. Walk her around a bit, then cinch her up a little more. Repeat this at least one or two more times until she is tight enough to mount.

The main thing you are going to be working on is desensitizing her to things, including your hand, under her girth area. The main objective is to repeat what you're doing until she is willing to stand. If she doesn't hold still, don't try to make her move or get frustrated, just do your best to keep touching her there until she stops, and then release and praise her.

Hope this helps.
~Raye


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Question:
Hi,

I have a 3 1/2yr old QH red roan and he has a thing where we can't put him in with other horses or ride with any other horses because he strikes out and will fight and fight till we break it up! What do I do? This happens in the arena and in pasture and made both horses bleed!

~Kayla

Answer:
Hi Kayla-

I’m assuming your horse is a gelding. If not, then I would geld him.

If he is a gelding, then you need to get him to be more comfortable with other horses. If he only strikes out when he and other horses sniff noses, then don't allow that to happen. Instead, ride your horse with a purpose, which will keep his attention on you. An excellent exercise I like to use is called 'serpentines.' The name is a little misleading because it suggests you are going to ride in a pattern -- but you’re not.

All you need to do is change your horse’s direction every 2 to 3 seconds using just one rein at a time. As he becomes softer and softer, then start asking for his head to come down toward his chest -- still only using one rein. When he switches directions effortlessly and without raising his head, you can start riding with two reins. The key through the whole exercise is adding pressure until you get the desired result, and then immediately releasing the pressure. You can start this exercise at a walk, but progress to a trot as soon as you are comfortable. Practice this exercise alone in the arena or pasture without any other horses around until you feel you have great control over him.

Once you are comfortable with your control, ride into the arena with one or two other horses who are not threatening to him and work with this exercise. Have riders on the other horses doing the same exercise. If you stay focused on the exercise, you will find that your horse will have more attention on you than the other horses. Also, he will be riding toward and away from the other horses, which will help build his confidence. As other horses approach him, and then turn away, he will be thinking that he just moved them off, which in turn builds his confidence. He finds out that the other horses are not really chasing him. Most horses with your described behavior in the arena are usually the less dominate ones. They are a lot like bullies and are just putting on a front.

Aggression in the pasture is another story. There, you are not in control of the situation. To introduce him to the herd will take special accommodations that you may or may not be willing or able to make. First, find him a buddy horse that he will tolerate. Put them in paddocks side by side with a fence between them. After a day or two, you should be able to let them out together in a pasture. Once they have settled in (about 2 days) you can introduce the other horses one at a time in the same fashion, giving a couple of days for each new horse. Typically, after a few days the hierarchy is established and things settle down. During this introduction period I suggest you remove everybody's hind shoes at the very least.

On rare occasions, you may have an aggressive horse who just doesn’t get along well with others regardless of what you do. This horse will have to be pastured separately if possible.

Raye



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Question:
My horse will take her saddle and all just fine, but when I get on it's a whole new story. She either stands there and won't walk, or she bucks and frog hops till I’m on the ground. I own 2 horses, one 13 hand mix breed and a 14 hand appy/arabian. The appy cross is the one I am having trouble with. Both my horses are mares and the smaller one is the alpha mare. Would it help if I separated them while trying to break this mare? Please give me plenty of tips... I am so lost... thanks a bunch

-James

Answer:
Hi James-

Thanks for your question. I’m a little confused as to what you mean by separating them. If they are in the same pen while you are training, then by all means separate them. If you mean they share the same pasture or pen outside of training time, then I wouldn’t worry about it.

Now on to our problem. Your horse accepts the saddle fine but she “locks up” or bucks once you are in the saddle. First, make sure your saddle fits well. A horse in pain will try a lot of things to get rid of the pain.

Second, you need to have a cue that will disable the lock-up and buck. In other words, you need to have control of her hips. Once you have control of her hips, it is much more difficult for her to buck or even run off.

To teach her to disengage her hips, start by having her walk around with the saddle on. Before climbing on a horse I will check to see if they are responding to my cues willingly. I’ll ask a horse to walk forward, then I’ll pick up the left rein asking the right hip to move to the right. The left front foot should stop and pivot. This is disengaging the hindquarters. When the hip starts to move to the right and the left front foot has stopped and pivoted, release the pressure on the rein. Then immediately cue the horse with the rein to back up a couple of steps. The disengagement and back up are two separate cues, but the angle you pull the reins is the same as though you were in the saddle. Their neck should be soft and supple, not stiff. Remember, do not release the pressure until you get what you’re asking for. If you do, you are teaching your horse that the wrong answer is right. Once your horse is doing this smoothly, you are ready to move on.

Now that your cue to disengage and back up is solid from the ground, it’s time to practice climbing up and down from the horse without getting in the saddle. Start by just stepping up in the stirrup but not throwing a leg over. Once your horse accepts this from both sides, throw a leg over and then climb right back off. Work on both sides. Every time you dismount move your horse’s hips as before to make sure they are “unlocking.” When a horse is left in one place during an exercise like mounting and dismounting, they tend to build up nervousness. If left too long, when they do move they explode. Moving them helps to dissipate that nervous energy.

Once you are able to mount and dismount from both sides, you’re ready to ask your horse to move from the saddle. I ask the hip to do the moving first. I pick up one rein and ask just for the hip to move over a couple of steps. Once the hip moves, I will release pressure on the rein. Work whichever side you are most comfortable with, and then try the other side. Pretty soon you can ask the horse to move their hips over; as soon as they move, loosen the rein and they will start moving forward. Use gentle cues to progress. If you ever feel as though your horse is going to start bucking, use ONE REIN to bend their head to whichever side is easiest and disengage the hip until they settle down. This is very important: If you pull back on two rein, you will not win for two reasons - your horse is much stronger than you, and her head will remain in a position where she has the ability to both buck and rear.

Work this solution until your horse walks off freely. If your horse ever gets sticky with the hip, use your inside leg to help move it over.

My only concern is that because you have come off your horse several times in the past she may have figured out that bucking is the best solution. If this is the case, then you should find professional help to get you through this.

Good luck, I hope this helps.

-Raye Lochert